Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

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Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

Bob Zawalich-3

I am working on a plugin to replace ties with slurs, for example, to use dotted slurs to simulate dotted ties. It is easy enough to create a slur at the position of each tied note but I cannot make them go anywhere except stacked on top or stacked at the bottom of the notes. Changing the Dy values only let the top one go up and the bottoms down, so they will not be placed next to the notes. Magnetic Layout settings have no effect either.

 

I might be able to position non-magnetic slurs but I see no way to create them.

 

Has anyone figured out a way to do such a thing? Or anything else that might simulate dotted ties? Symbols are too hard to adjust the size of and the distance is not fixed over changes in the number of bars in a staff.

 

Suggestions welcomed!

 

Bob


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Re: Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

Alexander Plötz

Hi Bob,

it’s been a while since I have done ManuScript work, so I’m not sure how useful the following is. I notice that the coordinate properties for slurs will work just as expected when applied to a slur that has its Magnetic Layout turned off manually before running the plug-in code. As it seems, though, the supposed-to-be-read-write property UsesMagneticLayout cannot be changed by simple assignment. So the core of the problem might not be that you can’t move the slur, but that you can’t turn off ML straight-forwardly. I have a vague memory that there was a dedicated ManuScript method provided for changing that state, but I can’t get my hands on the documentation at the moment.

 

Best,

Alex

 

From: Plugin-dev [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 04:55
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

I am working on a plugin to replace ties with slurs, for example, to use dotted slurs to simulate dotted ties. It is easy enough to create a slur at the position of each tied note but I cannot make them go anywhere except stacked on top or stacked at the bottom of the notes. Changing the Dy values only let the top one go up and the bottoms down, so they will not be placed next to the notes. Magnetic Layout settings have no effect either.

 

I might be able to position non-magnetic slurs but I see no way to create them.

 

Has anyone figured out a way to do such a thing? Or anything else that might simulate dotted ties? Symbols are too hard to adjust the size of and the distance is not fixed over changes in the number of bars in a staff.

 

Suggestions welcomed!

 

Bob


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Re: Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

Bob Zawalich-3

This is an example of turning off ML. It is simple enough once you find the correct variable. I thought I had tried turning it off when I created the slurs and it had not worked, but now that I try doing it again, it does seem that I can control the Dy settings. It is tricky to control whether the slur is up or down, but I may be able to get around that. I will experiment.

Thanks, Alex. My alternative was going to be creating a bunch manually and putting them into a data score, then copying and pasting them. This should be simpler. I will let you know how it works out.

 

if (dlg_fNoMagLayout)

{

            obj.UsesMagneticLayout = SuppressDodge; // turn off magnetic layout for these; else will not move

}

 

bob

 

From: Plugin-dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 12:38 AM
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Hi Bob,

it’s been a while since I have done ManuScript work, so I’m not sure how useful the following is. I notice that the coordinate properties for slurs will work just as expected when applied to a slur that has its Magnetic Layout turned off manually before running the plug-in code. As it seems, though, the supposed-to-be-read-write property UsesMagneticLayout cannot be changed by simple assignment. So the core of the problem might not be that you can’t move the slur, but that you can’t turn off ML straight-forwardly. I have a vague memory that there was a dedicated ManuScript method provided for changing that state, but I can’t get my hands on the documentation at the moment.

 

Best,

Alex

 

From: Plugin-dev [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 04:55
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

I am working on a plugin to replace ties with slurs, for example, to use dotted slurs to simulate dotted ties. It is easy enough to create a slur at the position of each tied note but I cannot make them go anywhere except stacked on top or stacked at the bottom of the notes. Changing the Dy values only let the top one go up and the bottoms down, so they will not be placed next to the notes. Magnetic Layout settings have no effect either.

 

I might be able to position non-magnetic slurs but I see no way to create them.

 

Has anyone figured out a way to do such a thing? Or anything else that might simulate dotted ties? Symbols are too hard to adjust the size of and the distance is not fixed over changes in the number of bars in a staff.

 

Suggestions welcomed!

 

Bob


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Re: Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

Alexander Plötz
In reply to this post by Alexander Plötz

Update

This works fine for me (try it with a beneath-noteheads slur):

for each Slur SL in selection {

SL.UsesMagneticLayout=SuppressDodge;

SL.Dy=SL.Dy+32;

SL.RhDy=SL.RhDy+32;

}

 

Alex

 

 

From: Plugin-dev [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 09:38
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Hi Bob,

it’s been a while since I have done ManuScript work, so I’m not sure how useful the following is. I notice that the coordinate properties for slurs will work just as expected when applied to a slur that has its Magnetic Layout turned off manually before running the plug-in code. As it seems, though, the supposed-to-be-read-write property UsesMagneticLayout cannot be changed by simple assignment. So the core of the problem might not be that you can’t move the slur, but that you can’t turn off ML straight-forwardly. I have a vague memory that there was a dedicated ManuScript method provided for changing that state, but I can’t get my hands on the documentation at the moment.

 

Best,

Alex

 

From: Plugin-dev [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 04:55
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

I am working on a plugin to replace ties with slurs, for example, to use dotted slurs to simulate dotted ties. It is easy enough to create a slur at the position of each tied note but I cannot make them go anywhere except stacked on top or stacked at the bottom of the notes. Changing the Dy values only let the top one go up and the bottoms down, so they will not be placed next to the notes. Magnetic Layout settings have no effect either.

 

I might be able to position non-magnetic slurs but I see no way to create them.

 

Has anyone figured out a way to do such a thing? Or anything else that might simulate dotted ties? Symbols are too hard to adjust the size of and the distance is not fixed over changes in the number of bars in a staff.

 

Suggestions welcomed!

 

Bob


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Re: Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

Alexander Plötz
In reply to this post by Bob Zawalich-3

Ah, didn’t see your reply before sending my update.

>>My alternative was going to be creating a bunch manually and putting them into a data score, then copying and pasting them.

Incidentally, this was my first impulse. I am glad I made the experiment first.

I do remember that I fell for the UsesMagneticLayout=false trap several times. In a way it should be obvious, though, since there are actually three states for ML application. But, of course, who does ever think of it this way during regular workflow?

Best,

Alex

From: Plugin-dev [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 10:19
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

This is an example of turning off ML. It is simple enough once you find the correct variable. I thought I had tried turning it off when I created the slurs and it had not worked, but now that I try doing it again, it does seem that I can control the Dy settings. It is tricky to control whether the slur is up or down, but I may be able to get around that. I will experiment.

Thanks, Alex. My alternative was going to be creating a bunch manually and putting them into a data score, then copying and pasting them. This should be simpler. I will let you know how it works out.

 

if (dlg_fNoMagLayout)

{

            obj.UsesMagneticLayout = SuppressDodge; // turn off magnetic layout for these; else will not move

}

 

bob

 

From: Plugin-dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 12:38 AM
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Hi Bob,

it’s been a while since I have done ManuScript work, so I’m not sure how useful the following is. I notice that the coordinate properties for slurs will work just as expected when applied to a slur that has its Magnetic Layout turned off manually before running the plug-in code. As it seems, though, the supposed-to-be-read-write property UsesMagneticLayout cannot be changed by simple assignment. So the core of the problem might not be that you can’t move the slur, but that you can’t turn off ML straight-forwardly. I have a vague memory that there was a dedicated ManuScript method provided for changing that state, but I can’t get my hands on the documentation at the moment.

 

Best,

Alex

 

From: Plugin-dev [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 04:55
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

I am working on a plugin to replace ties with slurs, for example, to use dotted slurs to simulate dotted ties. It is easy enough to create a slur at the position of each tied note but I cannot make them go anywhere except stacked on top or stacked at the bottom of the notes. Changing the Dy values only let the top one go up and the bottoms down, so they will not be placed next to the notes. Magnetic Layout settings have no effect either.

 

I might be able to position non-magnetic slurs but I see no way to create them.

 

Has anyone figured out a way to do such a thing? Or anything else that might simulate dotted ties? Symbols are too hard to adjust the size of and the distance is not fixed over changes in the number of bars in a staff.

 

Suggestions welcomed!

 

Bob


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Re: Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

Bob Zawalich-3

Yes – I did know about the correct ML setting but somehow my test did not work. I am creating the slurs on the fly to replace ties, and I can now positions them where I want relative to the notes, but  regardless of the styleId I use they always point up if the chord note stem is down, and vice versa (so these are still magnetic slurs. Non magnetic slurs do respect the up and down state).

There is no way I know of to flip them in ManuScript (only NoteRests have a FlipStem command, and it does not work on lines). A user can select and flip them, though.

 

At the moment the only way I know to control the direction is what I mentioned before: creating non magnetic slurs in a data score and copy/pasting them. I am hoping there is another way…

 

bob

 

From: Plugin-dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 1:48 AM
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Ah, didn’t see your reply before sending my update.

>>My alternative was going to be creating a bunch manually and putting them into a data score, then copying and pasting them.

Incidentally, this was my first impulse. I am glad I made the experiment first.

I do remember that I fell for the UsesMagneticLayout=false trap several times. In a way it should be obvious, though, since there are actually three states for ML application. But, of course, who does ever think of it this way during regular workflow?

Best,

Alex

From: Plugin-dev [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 10:19
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

This is an example of turning off ML. It is simple enough once you find the correct variable. I thought I had tried turning it off when I created the slurs and it had not worked, but now that I try doing it again, it does seem that I can control the Dy settings. It is tricky to control whether the slur is up or down, but I may be able to get around that. I will experiment.

Thanks, Alex. My alternative was going to be creating a bunch manually and putting them into a data score, then copying and pasting them. This should be simpler. I will let you know how it works out.

 

if (dlg_fNoMagLayout)

{

            obj.UsesMagneticLayout = SuppressDodge; // turn off magnetic layout for these; else will not move

}

 

bob

 

From: Plugin-dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 12:38 AM
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Hi Bob,

it’s been a while since I have done ManuScript work, so I’m not sure how useful the following is. I notice that the coordinate properties for slurs will work just as expected when applied to a slur that has its Magnetic Layout turned off manually before running the plug-in code. As it seems, though, the supposed-to-be-read-write property UsesMagneticLayout cannot be changed by simple assignment. So the core of the problem might not be that you can’t move the slur, but that you can’t turn off ML straight-forwardly. I have a vague memory that there was a dedicated ManuScript method provided for changing that state, but I can’t get my hands on the documentation at the moment.

 

Best,

Alex

 

From: Plugin-dev [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 04:55
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

I am working on a plugin to replace ties with slurs, for example, to use dotted slurs to simulate dotted ties. It is easy enough to create a slur at the position of each tied note but I cannot make them go anywhere except stacked on top or stacked at the bottom of the notes. Changing the Dy values only let the top one go up and the bottoms down, so they will not be placed next to the notes. Magnetic Layout settings have no effect either.

 

I might be able to position non-magnetic slurs but I see no way to create them.

 

Has anyone figured out a way to do such a thing? Or anything else that might simulate dotted ties? Symbols are too hard to adjust the size of and the distance is not fixed over changes in the number of bars in a staff.

 

Suggestions welcomed!

 

Bob


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Re: Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

Alexander Plötz

Browsing the documentation, I got the same impression. What I would do – if the plug-in was intended for strictly personal use – would be to make the necessary positioning adjustments and to then bulk select all slurs of which it is known that they have the wrong direction, before exiting the plug-in with a message prompting the user to apply the flip manually. I don't know if this is really appropriate for a public plug-in, though.

Alex

From: Plugin-dev [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 11:24
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Yes – I did know about the correct ML setting but somehow my test did not work. I am creating the slurs on the fly to replace ties, and I can now positions them where I want relative to the notes, but  regardless of the styleId I use they always point up if the chord note stem is down, and vice versa (so these are still magnetic slurs. Non magnetic slurs do respect the up and down state).

There is no way I know of to flip them in ManuScript (only NoteRests have a FlipStem command, and it does not work on lines). A user can select and flip them, though.

 

At the moment the only way I know to control the direction is what I mentioned before: creating non magnetic slurs in a data score and copy/pasting them. I am hoping there is another way…

 

bob

 

From: Plugin-dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 1:48 AM
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Ah, didn’t see your reply before sending my update.

>>My alternative was going to be creating a bunch manually and putting them into a data score, then copying and pasting them.

Incidentally, this was my first impulse. I am glad I made the experiment first.

I do remember that I fell for the UsesMagneticLayout=false trap several times. In a way it should be obvious, though, since there are actually three states for ML application. But, of course, who does ever think of it this way during regular workflow?

Best,

Alex

From: Plugin-dev [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 10:19
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

This is an example of turning off ML. It is simple enough once you find the correct variable. I thought I had tried turning it off when I created the slurs and it had not worked, but now that I try doing it again, it does seem that I can control the Dy settings. It is tricky to control whether the slur is up or down, but I may be able to get around that. I will experiment.

Thanks, Alex. My alternative was going to be creating a bunch manually and putting them into a data score, then copying and pasting them. This should be simpler. I will let you know how it works out.

 

if (dlg_fNoMagLayout)

{

            obj.UsesMagneticLayout = SuppressDodge; // turn off magnetic layout for these; else will not move

}

 

bob

 

From: Plugin-dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 12:38 AM
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Hi Bob,

it’s been a while since I have done ManuScript work, so I’m not sure how useful the following is. I notice that the coordinate properties for slurs will work just as expected when applied to a slur that has its Magnetic Layout turned off manually before running the plug-in code. As it seems, though, the supposed-to-be-read-write property UsesMagneticLayout cannot be changed by simple assignment. So the core of the problem might not be that you can’t move the slur, but that you can’t turn off ML straight-forwardly. I have a vague memory that there was a dedicated ManuScript method provided for changing that state, but I can’t get my hands on the documentation at the moment.

 

Best,

Alex

 

From: Plugin-dev [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 04:55
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

I am working on a plugin to replace ties with slurs, for example, to use dotted slurs to simulate dotted ties. It is easy enough to create a slur at the position of each tied note but I cannot make them go anywhere except stacked on top or stacked at the bottom of the notes. Changing the Dy values only let the top one go up and the bottoms down, so they will not be placed next to the notes. Magnetic Layout settings have no effect either.

 

I might be able to position non-magnetic slurs but I see no way to create them.

 

Has anyone figured out a way to do such a thing? Or anything else that might simulate dotted ties? Symbols are too hard to adjust the size of and the distance is not fixed over changes in the number of bars in a staff.

 

Suggestions welcomed!

 

Bob


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Re: Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

Bob Zawalich-3

Thanks, Alex,

Actually I have done similar things in public plugins when, for example, I had no way to add spacing to a bar to accommodate objects I had added, so I would select the following notes and tell the user to use shift alt/option-right to make the adjustments.

 

Flipping slurs whose positions have been adjusted tends to  disrupt their positions so this may really not be worth putting a lot of effort into, even if I wanted to.

 

Hope you are having a good time with Dorico. I’m still hoping to do some work there one of these days.

 

Bob

 

 

 

From: Plugin-dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 2:51 AM
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Browsing the documentation, I got the same impression. What I would do – if the plug-in was intended for strictly personal use – would be to make the necessary positioning adjustments and to then bulk select all slurs of which it is known that they have the wrong direction, before exiting the plug-in with a message prompting the user to apply the flip manually. I don't know if this is really appropriate for a public plug-in, though.

Alex

From: Plugin-dev [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 11:24
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Yes – I did know about the correct ML setting but somehow my test did not work. I am creating the slurs on the fly to replace ties, and I can now positions them where I want relative to the notes, but  regardless of the styleId I use they always point up if the chord note stem is down, and vice versa (so these are still magnetic slurs. Non magnetic slurs do respect the up and down state).

There is no way I know of to flip them in ManuScript (only NoteRests have a FlipStem command, and it does not work on lines). A user can select and flip them, though.

 

At the moment the only way I know to control the direction is what I mentioned before: creating non magnetic slurs in a data score and copy/pasting them. I am hoping there is another way…

 

bob

 

From: Plugin-dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 1:48 AM
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Ah, didn’t see your reply before sending my update.

>>My alternative was going to be creating a bunch manually and putting them into a data score, then copying and pasting them.

Incidentally, this was my first impulse. I am glad I made the experiment first.

I do remember that I fell for the UsesMagneticLayout=false trap several times. In a way it should be obvious, though, since there are actually three states for ML application. But, of course, who does ever think of it this way during regular workflow?

Best,

Alex

From: Plugin-dev [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 10:19
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

This is an example of turning off ML. It is simple enough once you find the correct variable. I thought I had tried turning it off when I created the slurs and it had not worked, but now that I try doing it again, it does seem that I can control the Dy settings. It is tricky to control whether the slur is up or down, but I may be able to get around that. I will experiment.

Thanks, Alex. My alternative was going to be creating a bunch manually and putting them into a data score, then copying and pasting them. This should be simpler. I will let you know how it works out.

 

if (dlg_fNoMagLayout)

{

            obj.UsesMagneticLayout = SuppressDodge; // turn off magnetic layout for these; else will not move

}

 

bob

 

From: Plugin-dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Alexander Plötz
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 12:38 AM
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

Hi Bob,

it’s been a while since I have done ManuScript work, so I’m not sure how useful the following is. I notice that the coordinate properties for slurs will work just as expected when applied to a slur that has its Magnetic Layout turned off manually before running the plug-in code. As it seems, though, the supposed-to-be-read-write property UsesMagneticLayout cannot be changed by simple assignment. So the core of the problem might not be that you can’t move the slur, but that you can’t turn off ML straight-forwardly. I have a vague memory that there was a dedicated ManuScript method provided for changing that state, but I can’t get my hands on the documentation at the moment.

 

Best,

Alex

 

From: Plugin-dev [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bob Zawalich
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. Juli 2018 04:55
To: 'A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers'
Subject: [Plugin-dev] Has anyone ever figured out a way to create non-magnetic slurs?

 

I am working on a plugin to replace ties with slurs, for example, to use dotted slurs to simulate dotted ties. It is easy enough to create a slur at the position of each tied note but I cannot make them go anywhere except stacked on top or stacked at the bottom of the notes. Changing the Dy values only let the top one go up and the bottoms down, so they will not be placed next to the notes. Magnetic Layout settings have no effect either.

 

I might be able to position non-magnetic slurs but I see no way to create them.

 

Has anyone figured out a way to do such a thing? Or anything else that might simulate dotted ties? Symbols are too hard to adjust the size of and the distance is not fixed over changes in the number of bars in a staff.

 

Suggestions welcomed!

 

Bob


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Plugin-dev mailing list
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