Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
11 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

João Pais-2
Hello list,

I'm searching for someone who would be interested in developing a plugin
doing a specific kind of harmonic analysis - envolving chord symbols, and
identification of notes inside/outsite the harmony. Is anyone interested
in these subjects? I could then provide a more detailed explanation and
ask for a quote.

Best regards,

João

PS: I could also send here the description of the issue, but I didn't want
to create much noise.

_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

la mà de guido
Hi Joao,
Attached is the plugin I have done for myself if it can be useful for you
Best
Llorenç

Llorenç Balsach

Sant Pau 54
08201 Sabadell

2017-04-05 21:10 GMT+02:00 João Pais <[hidden email]>:
Hello list,

I'm searching for someone who would be interested in developing a plugin
doing a specific kind of harmonic analysis - envolving chord symbols, and
identification of notes inside/outsite the harmony. Is anyone interested
in these subjects? I could then provide a more detailed explanation and
ask for a quote.

Best regards,

João

PS: I could also send here the description of the issue, but I didn't want
to create much noise.

_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev


_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev

scan-nou.plg (391K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

la mà de guido
Sorry I send it again with a name: "Harmonic analysis beta"
Llorenç Balsach

Llorenç Balsach

Sant Pau 54
08201 Sabadell

2017-04-07 13:13 GMT+02:00 la mà de guido <[hidden email]>:
Hi Joao,
Attached is the plugin I have done for myself if it can be useful for you
Best
Llorenç

Llorenç Balsach

Sant Pau 54
08201 Sabadell

2017-04-05 21:10 GMT+02:00 João Pais <[hidden email]>:
Hello list,

I'm searching for someone who would be interested in developing a plugin
doing a specific kind of harmonic analysis - envolving chord symbols, and
identification of notes inside/outsite the harmony. Is anyone interested
in these subjects? I could then provide a more detailed explanation and
ask for a quote.

Best regards,

João

PS: I could also send here the description of the issue, but I didn't want
to create much noise.

_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev



_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev

scan-nou.plg (391K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

llorenç Balsach
In reply to this post by João Pais-2
Perhaps the response I have sent has not arrived since I sent from another email:
Send again:
Hi Joao,
Attached is the plugin I have done for myself if it can be useful for you
Best
Llorenç
name "harmonic analysis beta"

2017-04-05 21:10 GMT+02:00 João Pais <[hidden email]>:
Hello list,

I'm searching for someone who would be interested in developing a plugin
doing a specific kind of harmonic analysis - envolving chord symbols, and
identification of notes inside/outsite the harmony. Is anyone interested
in these subjects? I could then provide a more detailed explanation and
ask for a quote.

Best regards,

João

PS: I could also send here the description of the issue, but I didn't want
to create much noise.

_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev


_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev

scan-nou.plg (391K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

João Pais-2
In reply to this post by João Pais-2
Hello list,

I'm searching for someone who would be interested in developing a plugin
doing a specific kind of harmonic analysis - involving chord symbols, and
identification of notes inside/outside the harmony. Is anyone interested
in these subjects? I could then provide a more detailed explanation and
ask for a quote.

Best regards,

João

PS: I could also send here the description of the issue, but I didn't want
to create much noise.


_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

Alex M
Are you talking about analysis automatically displayed as roman numerals under a staff? 

I’ve been looking for such an app for ten years!  

Notation apps nearly have all the same features, even my Logic Pro X can engrave respectable scores, but no one is providing the value added feature of harmonic analysis. Why? It’s akin to having major companies releasing word processors apps without grammar and spell checkers in 2017!

Is anyone working on such a project?    I inquired with the Dorico team, the responder said they have no plans for it either. They would be two years from considering such a feature.

Do you experienced plugin writers think it's doable in Manuscript?  

In the meantime, João, I would look into “Mapping Tonal Harmony Pro” and Synfire. Neither are notation programs but they display Roman Numerals. 

In Mapping Tonal Harmony,  the user selects chords via an ingenious harmonic function map. The chords are displayed on a single staff which cannot be edited.  It cannot import MIDI but can export it.  It would be amazing if Avid licensed that tech. 

Synfire can import MIDI but requires the user to enter formatting data for each type of secondary chord the user wants to see… Quite strange.  Synfire displays notes an enhanced piano roll display.  It may serve your needs.

I started looking at Manuscript because of you, João. There’s potential but the plugin has to be run every time a note is entered for it to refresh the display. Right? 

Can states be saved between runs? Can the previous analysis data be reused? The script would take a while for large scores. 

Positioning text and graphics is not refined.  Every possible numeral would have to be pre-rendered to a graphic file with every possible inversion/diminished notation, secondary chords with division line underneath as opposed to sideways to save space, keep a standardized graphic size  ( as much as possible). Tell me if I’m wrong. 

I’d love to sink my teeth in this project, but I playback all my virtual instrument via Apple’s Logic Pro X for its automation lanes controlling virtual synth knobs, or selecting articulations. In Sibelius, articulation selection requires Sound Sets & House Style files. Great companies provide all the sound sets & styles and people created Sound Sets for East West libraries for instance but I have many other virtual instruments with no Sound Set & Styles.  

I don’t want to go through the MIDI export/import process just to view the music analysis every time I change one note in Logic.

Thus, before I’d consider using Sibelius and developing plugins, I’d need it to sync with audio workstation software ( DAWs) like Logic, with a variety of options per instrument:

1) Full bidirectional MIDI sync editing: notes edited in a Logic track would change/show up on the Sibelius staff and notes edited on Sibelius change/show up in Logic, or perhaps unidirectional editing with quantized, cleaned up display of notes on the Sibelius side,
2) during playback:  Sibelius as MIDI source driving a Logic instrument as audio source
3) ---Sibelius supports this --->  Playback with Sibelius as MIDI source and audio source:  audio from Sibelius instrument sent to a Logic Auxiliary track for further processing and audio output.

An audio pitch manipulation plugin like Melodyne can do all three. Why couldn’t Sibelius? Avid would need to create an AU/VST plugin that connects Sibelius with DAWs.  VSL’s Vienna Ensemble connects via a AU/VST plugin, allowing any DAW to span a session across multiple computers or more efficiently on one computer!

João, there’s also Musescore, a C++based open source app ready for the kind of modification we're looking for.  However, I don’t like open source projects because they steal income from those who work for a living at companies like Avid to feed their families.   I’d much rather Avid modify Sibelius and Manuscript to do what I need than be forced to self-empower myself by working for free or nearly free on an open source project. 

What a frustrating situation.

Alex Major

On Apr 27, 2017, at 9:55 AM, João Pais <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello list,

I'm searching for someone who would be interested in developing a plugin
doing a specific kind of harmonic analysis - involving chord symbols, and
identification of notes inside/outside the harmony. Is anyone interested
in these subjects? I could then provide a more detailed explanation and
ask for a quote.

Best regards,

João

PS: I could also send here the description of the issue, but I didn't want
to create much noise.

_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev


_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev
Ron
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

Ron
Alex - I think your suggestion that the open source community 'steals income' from the likes of Avid is unwarranted. The open source community can add tremendous value - think how much has been contributed to the global economy by open source projects such as WordPress, MySQL, Apache, and Linux.


I am frustrated that Sibelius never had an API that was available for programmers outside the manuscript environment. (By contrast, Vegas video editing software plugins are written in C# although even there the API is incomplete).

My question though is whether Sibelius should be a harmonic analysis tool rather than its focus on music engraving. I am not clear about the comparison between such analysis and spelling/grammar checking - and whether harmonic analysis can usefully be applied to the gamut of compositional styles, languages, and idioms that for the basis for 21st century music.

Regards,
Ron.


On 30 April 2017 00:58:01 BST, Alex M <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are you talking about analysis automatically displayed as roman numerals under a staff? 

I’ve been looking for such an app for ten years!  

Notation apps nearly have all the same features, even my Logic Pro X can engrave respectable scores, but no one is providing the value added feature of harmonic analysis. Why? It’s akin to having major companies releasing word processors apps without grammar and spell checkers in 2017!

Is anyone working on such a project?    I inquired with the Dorico team, the responder said they have no plans for it either. They would be two years from considering such a feature.

Do you experienced plugin writers think it's doable in Manuscript?  

In the meantime, João, I would look into “Mapping Tonal Harmony Pro” and Synfire. Neither are notation programs but they display Roman Numerals. 

In Mapping Tonal Harmony,  the user selects chords via an ingenious harmonic function map. The chords are displayed on a single staff which cannot be edited.  It cannot import MIDI but can export it.  It would be amazing if Avid licensed that tech. 

Synfire can import MIDI but requires the user to enter formatting data for each type of secondary chord the user wants to see… Quite strange.  Synfire displays notes an enhanced piano roll display.  It may serve your needs.

I started looking at Manuscript because of you, João. There’s potential but the plugin has to be run every time a note is entered for it to refresh the display. Right? 

Can states be saved between runs? Can the previous analysis data be reused? The script would take a while for large scores. 

Positioning text and graphics is not refined.  Every possible numeral would have to be pre-rendered to a graphic file with every possible inversion/diminished notation, secondary chords with division line underneath as opposed to sideways to save space, keep a standardized graphic size  ( as much as possible). Tell me if I’m wrong. 

I’d love to sink my teeth in this project, but I playback all my virtual instrument via Apple’s Logic Pro X for its automation lanes controlling virtual synth knobs, or selecting articulations. In Sibelius, articulation selection requires Sound Sets & House Style files. Great companies provide all the sound sets & styles and people created Sound Sets for East West libraries for instance but I have many other virtual instruments with no Sound Set & Styles.  

I don’t want to go through the MIDI export/import process just to view the music analysis every time I change one note in Logic.

Thus, before I’d consider using Sibelius and developing plugins, I’d need it to sync with audio workstation software ( DAWs) like Logic, with a variety of options per instrument:

1) Full bidirectional MIDI sync editing: notes edited in a Logic track would change/show up on the Sibelius staff and notes edited on Sibelius change/show up in Logic, or perhaps unidirectional editing with quantized, cleaned up display of notes on the Sibelius side,
2) during playback:  Sibelius as MIDI source driving a Logic instrument as audio source
3) ---Sibelius supports this --->  Playback with Sibelius as MIDI source and audio source:  audio from Sibelius instrument sent to a Logic Auxiliary track for further processing and audio output.

An audio pitch manipulation plugin like Melodyne can do all three. Why couldn’t Sibelius? Avid would need to create an AU/VST plugin that connects Sibelius with DAWs.  VSL’s Vienna Ensemble connects via a AU/VST plugin, allowing any DAW to span a session across multiple computers or more efficiently on one computer!

João, there’s also Musescore, a C++based open source app ready for the kind of modification we're looking for.  However, I don’t like open source projects because they steal income from those who work for a living at companies like Avid to feed their families.   I’d much rather Avid modify Sibelius and Manuscript to do what I need than be forced to self-empower myself by working for free or nearly free on an open source project. 

What a frustrating situation.

Alex Major

On Apr 27, 2017, at 9:55 AM, João Pais <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello list,

I'm searching for someone who would be interested in developing a plugin
doing a specific kind of harmonic analysis - involving chord symbols, and
identification of notes inside/outside the harmony. Is anyone interested
in these subjects? I could then provide a more detailed explanation and
ask for a quote.

Best regards,

João

PS: I could also send here the description of the issue, but I didn't want
to create much noise.

_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev


--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

João Pais-2
I would also say, thinking that "the open source community 'steals income' from companies"  is the same as saying "activists steal rights from the established classes". Also, open source doesn't mean "for free", and that whoever does it doesn't have a family to feed. And as well, companies and users can benefit a lot from having experienced users making specialized tools. As Ron said, you should have a look to see what software, hardware, etc. you're using these days that would not exist if it didn't start with open source (either as an individual project, or supported by the state, that is, the taxpayers). You might be surprised.

My question was for a very specific kind of harmonic analysis and annotation. If you check Llorenc Barber's mail in this list on the 7.04, maybe it has something you wanted (or maybe not).

Best,

Joao


Alex - I think your suggestion that the open source community 'steals income' from the likes of Avid is unwarranted. The open source community can add tremendous value - think how much has been contributed to the global economy by open source projects such as WordPress, MySQL, Apache, and Linux.


I am frustrated that Sibelius never had an API that was available for programmers outside the manuscript environment. (By contrast, Vegas video editing software plugins are written in C# although even there the API is incomplete).

My question though is whether Sibelius should be a harmonic analysis tool rather than its focus on music engraving. I am not clear about the comparison between such analysis and spelling/grammar checking - and whether harmonic analysis can usefully be applied to the gamut of compositional styles, languages, and idioms that for the basis for 21st century music.

Regards,
Ron.


On 30 April 2017 00:58:01 BST, Alex M <[hidden email]> wrote:
Are you talking about analysis automatically displayed as roman numerals under a staff? 

I’ve been looking for such an app for ten years!  

Notation apps nearly have all the same features, even my Logic Pro X can engrave respectable scores, but no one is providing the value added feature of harmonic analysis. Why? It’s akin to having major companies releasing word processors apps without grammar and spell checkers in 2017!

Is anyone working on such a project?    I inquired with the Dorico team, the responder said they have no plans for it either. They would be two years from considering such a feature.

Do you experienced plugin writers think it's doable in Manuscript?  

In the meantime, João, I would look into “Mapping Tonal Harmony Pro” and Synfire. Neither are notation programs but they display Roman Numerals. 

In Mapping Tonal Harmony,  the user selects chords via an ingenious harmonic function map. The chords are displayed on a single staff which cannot be edited.  It cannot import MIDI but can export it.  It would be amazing if Avid licensed that tech. 

Synfire can import MIDI but requires the user to enter formatting data for each type of secondary chord the user wants to see… Quite strange.  Synfire displays notes an enhanced piano roll display.  It may serve your needs.

I started looking at Manuscript because of you, João. There’s potential but the plugin has to be run every time a note is entered for it to refresh the display. Right? 

Can states be saved between runs? Can the previous analysis data be reused? The script would take a while for large scores. 

Positioning text and graphics is not refined.  Every possible numeral would have to be pre-rendered to a graphic file with every possible inversion/diminished notation, secondary chords with division line underneath as opposed to sideways to save space, keep a standardized graphic size  ( as much as possible). Tell me if I’m wrong. 

I’d love to sink my teeth in this project, but I playback all my virtual instrument via Apple’s Logic Pro X for its automation lanes controlling virtual synth knobs, or selecting articulations. In Sibelius, articulation selection requires Sound Sets & House Style files. Great companies provide all the sound sets & styles and people created Sound Sets for East West libraries for instance but I have many other virtual instruments with no Sound Set & Styles.  

I don’t want to go through the MIDI export/import process just to view the music analysis every time I change one note in Logic.

Thus, before I’d consider using Sibelius and developing plugins, I’d need it to sync with audio workstation software ( DAWs) like Logic, with a variety of options per instrument:

1) Full bidirectional MIDI sync editing: notes edited in a Logic track would change/show up on the Sibelius staff and notes edited on Sibelius change/show up in Logic, or perhaps unidirectional editing with quantized, cleaned up display of notes on the Sibelius side,
2) during playback:  Sibelius as MIDI source driving a Logic instrument as audio source
3) ---Sibelius supports this --->  Playback with Sibelius as MIDI source and audio source:  audio from Sibelius instrument sent to a Logic Auxiliary track for further processing and audio output.

An audio pitch manipulation plugin like Melodyne can do all three. Why couldn’t Sibelius? Avid would need to create an AU/VST plugin that connects Sibelius with DAWs.  VSL’s Vienna Ensemble connects via a AU/VST plugin, allowing any DAW to span a session across multiple computers or more efficiently on one computer!

João, there’s also Musescore, a C++based open source app ready for the kind of modification we're looking for.  However, I don’t like open source projects because they steal income from those who work for a living at companies like Avid to feed their families.   I’d much rather Avid modify Sibelius and Manuscript to do what I need than be forced to self-empower myself by working for free or nearly free on an open source project. 

What a frustrating situation.

Alex Major

On Apr 27, 2017, at 9:55 AM, João Pais <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello list,

I'm searching for someone who would be interested in developing a plugin
doing a specific kind of harmonic analysis - involving chord symbols, and
identification of notes inside/outside the harmony. Is anyone interested
in these subjects? I could then provide a more detailed explanation and
ask for a quote.

Best regards,

João

PS: I could also send here the description of the issue, but I didn't want
to create much noise.

_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev


--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

mandyshaw
In reply to this post by Ron

I completely agree with you re the lack of a proper API Ron, I raised this a long time ago but was told firmly that professional developers were not the target audience for Sibelius plugins (or words to that effect). I felt this was short-sighted then, and I still do.

I would mind less if Manuscript had a remotely usable user interface. I fantasise about accessing Sibelius functionality from (for example) Visual Studio.

Re open source, having watched its progress for many years as an interested and pretty positive observer and as a frequent user, what I would say is that the needs of a business don't necessarily map onto the thought processes of an open source development community; open source is fantastic, and has been a game-changer, for operating systems (Linux) and middleware (Apache, mySQL, PHP, etc.), but I’d personally say the benefits were much less obvious at the application level. More widely used open standards for digital sheet music are surely the way forward here.

Mandy

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron Newsham
Sent: 30 April 2017 09:52
To: A mailing list for Sibelius plug-in developers <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Plugin-dev] Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

 

Alex - I think your suggestion that the open source community 'steals income' from the likes of Avid is unwarranted. The open source community can add tremendous value - think how much has been contributed to the global economy by open source projects such as WordPress, MySQL, Apache, and Linux.


I am frustrated that Sibelius never had an API that was available for programmers outside the manuscript environment. (By contrast, Vegas video editing software plugins are written in C# although even there the API is incomplete).

My question though is whether Sibelius should be a harmonic analysis tool rather than its focus on music engraving. I am not clear about the comparison between such analysis and spelling/grammar checking - and whether harmonic analysis can usefully be applied to the gamut of compositional styles, languages, and idioms that for the basis for 21st century music.

Regards,
Ron.

On 30 April 2017 00:58:01 BST, Alex M <[hidden email]> wrote:

Are you talking about analysis automatically displayed as roman numerals under a staff? 

 

I’ve been looking for such an app for ten years!  

 

Notation apps nearly have all the same features, even my Logic Pro X can engrave respectable scores, but no one is providing the value added feature of harmonic analysis. Why? It’s akin to having major companies releasing word processors apps without grammar and spell checkers in 2017!

 

Is anyone working on such a project?    I inquired with the Dorico team, the responder said they have no plans for it either. They would be two years from considering such a feature.

 

Do you experienced plugin writers think it's doable in Manuscript?  

 

In the meantime, João, I would look into “Mapping Tonal Harmony Pro” and Synfire. Neither are notation programs but they display Roman Numerals. 

 

In Mapping Tonal Harmony,  the user selects chords via an ingenious harmonic function map. The chords are displayed on a single staff which cannot be edited.  It cannot import MIDI but can export it.  It would be amazing if Avid licensed that tech. 

 

Synfire can import MIDI but requires the user to enter formatting data for each type of secondary chord the user wants to see… Quite strange.  Synfire displays notes an enhanced piano roll display.  It may serve your needs.

 

I started looking at Manuscript because of you, João. There’s potential but the plugin has to be run every time a note is entered for it to refresh the display. Right? 

 

Can states be saved between runs? Can the previous analysis data be reused? The script would take a while for large scores. 

 

Positioning text and graphics is not refined.  Every possible numeral would have to be pre-rendered to a graphic file with every possible inversion/diminished notation, secondary chords with division line underneath as opposed to sideways to save space, keep a standardized graphic size  ( as much as possible). Tell me if I’m wrong. 

 

I’d love to sink my teeth in this project, but I playback all my virtual instrument via Apple’s Logic Pro X for its automation lanes controlling virtual synth knobs, or selecting articulations. In Sibelius, articulation selection requires Sound Sets & House Style files. Great companies provide all the sound sets & styles and people created Sound Sets for East West libraries for instance but I have many other virtual instruments with no Sound Set & Styles.  

 

I don’t want to go through the MIDI export/import process just to view the music analysis every time I change one note in Logic.

 

Thus, before I’d consider using Sibelius and developing plugins, I’d need it to sync with audio workstation software ( DAWs) like Logic, with a variety of options per instrument:

 

1) Full bidirectional MIDI sync editing: notes edited in a Logic track would change/show up on the Sibelius staff and notes edited on Sibelius change/show up in Logic, or perhaps unidirectional editing with quantized, cleaned up display of notes on the Sibelius side,

2) during playback:  Sibelius as MIDI source driving a Logic instrument as audio source

3) ---Sibelius supports this --->  Playback with Sibelius as MIDI source and audio source:  audio from Sibelius instrument sent to a Logic Auxiliary track for further processing and audio output.

 

An audio pitch manipulation plugin like Melodyne can do all three. Why couldn’t Sibelius? Avid would need to create an AU/VST plugin that connects Sibelius with DAWs.  VSL’s Vienna Ensemble connects via a AU/VST plugin, allowing any DAW to span a session across multiple computers or more efficiently on one computer!

 

João, there’s also Musescore, a C++based open source app ready for the kind of modification we're looking for.  However, I don’t like open source projects because they steal income from those who work for a living at companies like Avid to feed their families.   I’d much rather Avid modify Sibelius and Manuscript to do what I need than be forced to self-empower myself by working for free or nearly free on an open source project. 

 

What a frustrating situation.

 

Alex Major

 

On Apr 27, 2017, at 9:55 AM, João Pais <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

Hello list,

I'm searching for someone who would be interested in developing a plugin
doing a specific kind of harmonic analysis - involving chord symbols, and
identification of notes inside/outside the harmony. Is anyone interested
in these subjects? I could then provide a more detailed explanation and
ask for a quote.

Best regards,

João

PS: I could also send here the description of the issue, but I didn't want
to create much noise.

 

_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev

 


--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

Tony Freixas

Harmonic Analysis

João,

Harmonic analysis sounds interesting. As far as I'm concerned, you are welcome to post the details—I wouldn't worry about the "noise". No one has to read the post if they don't want to. Do you have a process/algorithm in mind?

Extensibility

Sibelius

On 4/30/2017 2:48 AM, Mandy Shaw wrote:

I completely agree with you re the lack of a proper API Ron, I raised this a long time ago but was told firmly that professional developers were not the target audience for Sibelius plugins (or words to that effect). I felt this was short-sighted then, and I still do.

I would mind less if Manuscript had a remotely usable user interface. I fantasise about accessing Sibelius functionality from (for example) Visual Studio.

I'm fairly new to Sibelius and just started looking at plug-in development. My background is in software engineering.

It's fantastic that Sibelius has a plug-in language. It's a shame that it is so lame. I tried adding some debugging tools, but the language doesn't even adequate reflection features to do much. One is stuck with trace statements.

The choice of language might have been because it was someone's pet project, because of the not-invented-here syndrome or because there weren't a lot of choices at the time (I'm not sure when plug-ins were first added to Sibelius). Now that it's entrenched and the Sibelius team has limited bandwidth, we're all stuck with it.

I find myself unexcited about learning yet another custom language and having to work in a ridiculous development environment. It's  their loss, my loss and a loss for all Sibelius users.

Dorico

I don't believe Dorico has a plug-in environment yet, but (as usual), they appear to be aiming in the right direction. Their target language is Lua, but they are planning to provide different APIs for different types of functions: import/export, proof-reading, content generation, playback(!), style changes, remote control, etc.

MuseScore

Since MuseScore was mentioned, let me say that I think it is of little help. The MuseScore plug-in interface is almost totally useless and unsupported. One could, in theory, take it on as a project and make the interface work.

As for developing within MuseScore itself—all the code is available, but the core team, while extremely friendly and helpful, appear uninterested in providing useful documentation either on existing implementation or future development. You can spend days reading code and trying to reverse engineer the design principles.  I worked for weeks to get a working development environment and to implement a small feature and I had help from another poor soul looking for the same feature. The two of us were able to come up with something that didn't crash and seemed to work, but we lacked any confidence that we weren't missing some big flaw.

So good luck with that option.

Other

One other extensibility option I've considered is working directly with the MusicXML file. This might be limited to analysis, but it might also be useful for customized performances.

This approach allows developing tools in a full development environment, but at the expense of inconvenient export/import cycles. And it's a major project to provide a useful interface that allows one to traverse and modify a parsed MusicXML file.

--
Tony Freixas
[hidden email]





_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Searching for plugin developer for harmonic analysis plugin

Alex M
In reply to this post by Ron
João Pais  wrote:  If you check Llorenc Barber's mail in this list on the 7.04 maybe it has something you wanted

I couldn't find Llorenc Barber in textual search or search by author in any combination:

My question was for a very specific kind of harmonic analysis and annotation.

Could you give a link to an example? What is the system called? I suspect the coding to implement both our notations overlaps.
What I’m looking for is well explained in the book: Revisiting Music Theory: Basic Principles by Alfred Blatter, at an introductory to intermediate level.

Ron Newsham wrote:  I think your suggestion that the open source community 'steals income' from the likes of Avid is unwarranted. The open source community can add tremendous value

I agree. Open source empowers developers and is indispensable in much of our software infrastructure. I’m simply frustrated with a culture that expects everything for free or via piracy. This list isn’t the place to discuss such opinions, I apologize.  I was trying to be nice to the employees of Avid because I’m mentioned a competing open source solution the could fill our needs. 

Thank you Mandy for offering a more tempered wording:  "but I’d personally say the benefits were much less obvious at the application level.” 

Ron Newsham wrote:   My question is whether Sibelius should be a harmonic analysis tool rather than its focus on music engraving.

Why can’t it be both? if the musical data is properly decoupled from the code that creates the GUI view?  They'd just add a new view that removes everything extraneous to an analysis, displaying each staff as close together as possible if not merged, with notes differentiated in other ways and the roman notation underneath it all.  Some video games have more advanced imaginative displays than our apps designed for cultural artistic advancement! Though Sibelius is gorgeous for what it’s currently designed for.

Tony Freixas wrote: As for developing within MuseScore itself—all the code is available, but the core team, while extremely friendly and helpful, appear uninterested in providing useful documentation... You can spend days reading code and trying to reverse engineer the design principles.  I worked for weeks to get a working development environment and to implement a small feature and I had help...The two of us were able to come up with something that didn't crash and seemed to work, but we lacked any confidence that we weren't missing some big flaw.

So good luck with that option.

I commend you for the attempt. Did anyone review and advise on your changes?  

The developer docs seem to cover all the bases. I hadn’t looked at them deeply until this conversation. 

Can you tell me if the docs changed since you worked on the code?  

There's an editable Wiki for developers that includes the object layout displayed in two huge UML diagrams, zoomable in PDF, and there's a textual explanation page:  

WIKI: https://musescore.org/en/developers-handbook


I guess the code wasn’t well commented at the time, was it?


Ron Newsham wrote: I am not clear about the comparison between such analysis and spelling/grammar checking - and whether harmonic analysis can usefully be applied to the gamut of compositional styles, languages, and idioms that for the basis for 21st century music.

I’m self-taught but as I understand it, harmonic analysis is independent of styles. Such analysis is indispensable for mapping jazz's many short modulations to other keys, called tonicisations, often depicted as secondary chords. 

Here’s an analysis in roman numerals of some Mozart on Youtube using Mapping Tonal Harmony Pro. Start at 3:50 mins to hear the piece played as the analysis is displayed:


I would’ve thought most people using Sibelius where composers who knew music theory. Don’t all composers require analysis concepts just as all writers need literary analysis concepts to write interesting novels? 

It takes longer to write a great novel if you don’t understand the substructures of proper language phrasing and the possible superstructures, like parallelism. 

Computer programmers and systems analysts realized they re-wrote the same patterns, solved the same problems, over and over.  Why re-invent the wheel every time? Design patterns were named and catalogued so system designers had richer, higher level concepts to design with.  

Similarly, efficient composers understand music theory and analysis.  The grammar is well defined enough for a computer to represent them easily, that’s why I say harmonic analysis functionality should be commonplace in music apps just as a spelling and grammar checkers are in text apps. 

It takes a long time to write out an analysis “manually”, especially for a beginner like me.

Alex Major

______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev


_______________________________________________
Plugin-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://avid-listsrv1.avid.com/mailman/listinfo/plugin-dev